Few podcasts could ever dream of reaching the status of the Jocko Podcast. Its success comes from the unique duo of Jocko Willink and Echo Charles. Jocko is a decorated Navy Seal, best-selling author, and motivational speaker who applies military thinking to everyday life. But who in the world is his counterpart, Echo?
Echo Charles is the the director, producer, tech engineer, and co-host of the Jocko Podcast. He is a seasoned Jiu-Jitsu practitioner, holding a coveted black belt. Originally from Kauai, Hawaii, he is a former Division 1 college football player at the University of Hawaii and currently resides in the city of San Diego.
Also see: The 8 Navy SEALs on Joe Rogan’s Podcast
Echo’s Early Life and Career
Echo Charles was born on the island of Kauai in 1977, where he grew up before attending the University of Hawaii at Manoa in Honolulu. During his college years, he played D1 football as a wide receiver and studied with the intention of becoming a strength and conditioning coach. In 2003, he received a personal training certificate and had a year-long stint as a trainer in at 24 Hour Fitness in San Diego.
Echo later gravitated towards a career as a web developer and then started Flixpoint, a multimedia production company, where he was the producer of mixed martial arts (MMA) related content. Echo had a deep passion for Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (BJJ) and was able to incorporate his passion for it into his career. But BJJ became a much more important hobby than just some fitness exercise. It completely altered his life’s trajectory when he began training with Jocko Willink.
Also see: Will Jocko and Goggins Ever Do a Podcast Together?
Meeting Jocko Willink
In 2005, Echo began training under Dean Lister, a 4th-degree BJJ black belt and retired MMA fighter. Echo first heard of Jocko through Lister, as he was one of his black belt students, but wouldn’t have contact with him until 2006 when they rolled together for the first time. Echo has said that Jocko dominated him on the mats and that Jocko came off as a stoic, matter-of-fact man.
Echo and Jocko remained acquaintances, but their friendship didn’t form until Jocko opened Victory MMA and Fitness with Lister. At the new gym, Echo said he saw beyond Jocko’s reputation for being an intense, intimidating figure. Instead, he saw a fun, humorous side that both complemented and contradicted his straightforward military persona.
In a podcast episode, Echo gave an example of this blunt yet playful personality. At a BJJ tournament where Echo was competing, he lost for the first time in years. Jocko, sitting across the arena, sent him a text saying “You got caught with a gogoplata submission. That’s got to sting.” Echo said that Jocko’s light-heartedness is what lets him get away with his verbal jams.
Receiving His BJJ Black Belt
Echo and his friendship with Jocko reached another high point in 2021 when Jocko presented Echo with his BJJ black belt at Victory MMA and Fitness. Before awarding him the belt, Jocko gave an inspiring speech about the importance of staying humble and not veering off your path to achieve your goals in life. He ended the speech by calling up Echo and presenting the belt.
Also See: The 15 Best Jocko Willink Quotes on Discipline
Starting the Jocko Podcast
As Echo and Jocko’s friendship grew, so did Jocko’s success as a leadership consultant, author, and online figure. When Jocko appeared on Tim Ferris’s and Joe Rogan’s podcast, both suggested that he should start his own podcast. Jocko immediately went to Echo, who had a background in media production, and asked him for help to start a podcast.
Not only did Echo agree, but he also made a suggestion. Echo threw out the idea that the podcast would be better if Jocko had a co-host and nominated himself for the position. Jocko accepted, and the Jocko Podcast was born.
Since its creation in 2015, the podcast has risen to the top of the charts, where it still sits today. In 2023, it’s one of the most listened-to podcasts on Apple Music and Spotify, specifically excelling in the Business and Management categories.
Echo and Jocko mainly cover leadership lessons and advice on discipline and personal development. Jocko typically steers the ship, drawing from experiences during his time as a Navy Seal. Echo, on the other hand, asks follow-up questions and provides a softer, more contemplative viewpoint compared with Jocko’s direct, assertive style.
A Unique Perspective
At first glance, it may seem strange that Jocko chose a co-host that has few overlapping life experiences. But Echo provided a persuasive reason when he first pitched the idea that he should join the podcast. His main selling point was that he was just a regular guy, not a decorated veteran with the leadership skills and personal development of Jocko. Echo plays the role of the average listener and prompts Jocko to reiterate points and explain military terms in a way that makes his ideas more digestible.
This dynamic has played out naturally since the first episode of the podcast. Jocko, who is notorious for waking up at 4:30am at the crack of dawn, was explaining that getting up early is all about discipline. Echo then challenged Jocko’s rationale by saying, “You say it takes discipline to get out of bed. Wouldn’t that indicate you kind of need some more sleep?”
Also see: Former SEAL Jocko Willink: Why He Wakes Up So Early
It’s this perspective that has led many fans to praise the presence of Echo on the podcast. People see his views as relatable, especially when he discusses his own struggles to stay disciplined and be his best self.
A New Echo Charles
Sitting face to face with Jocko, who many see as the most disciplined, motivational man in the modern day, has had a massive impact on Echo’s life. He has said that his ability to hold himself accountable instead of pointing the finger at others has skyrocketed.
His relationship with Jocko has also molded him into a person who takes action and views defeating procrastination as a rewarding daily challenge. After close to a decade of co-hosting the podcast, perhaps it is Echo who has grown the most from being in such close proximity of a friend like Jocko.
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